Nordisk go liga - DGF Forum

Turneringer / Nordisk go liga

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rbl Member	# Posted: 7 Nov 2007 22:12 - Edited by: rbl Hej Som jeg luftede i mandags i KGK så har jeg gået lidt og tænkt på et tiltag til at kæde de nordiske lande mere sammen. En nordisk hold/klub liga efter tysk forbillede. Jeg har som lovet lavet et første udkast til et regelsæt vi kan diskutere og så sende videre til vores nordiske fæller. Det er lidt langt men jeg håber det kan være der. Det er lavet over det tyske regelsæt men forhåbentligt tilpasset nordiske ønsker. De vigtiste punkter som jeg ser det er: 1. Opstartsturneringen. Jeg har bare kastet det bedste ind jeg lige kunne finde på. Det kan gøres på mange måder. 2. Ligastrukturen - linearhierarkisk eller pyramidestruktur? 3. tidsperioden - fra NM til NM hen over sommeren eller som tyskerne fra sep.-maj? 4. med fast spilledag og i så fald hvilken? (jeg har ikke givet en. Tyskerne spiller torsdag 20.30). 5. Tid i partierne som angivet eller kortere/længere (tysken spiller 1t+15/5min)? 6. Holdstørelse - 4 pers som angivet eller kun 3 som i tegneserierne ;-) 7. Op/nedrykning - med mere bevægelse mellem divisionerne? 8. Navnet på ligaen og placering af hjemmeside. Jeg har en liga manager der køre php. God læselyst. Der er sikkert nogle svipsere da jeg var ret træt da jeg skrev det meste. Det er på engelsk så jeg slipper for at skrive det en gang til... Mvh Rasmus Nordic Go Club League §1. General 1) The Nordic Go Club League is formed to promote and maintained to promote go in the Nordic countries across the boarders and within clubs. 2) Hopefully the league will increase the joy of playing and make both experienced and beginners want to keep playing. §2. League structure A. Normal league season 1) The league is divided into groups of optimally 10 teams. The lowest groups may vary from 6 to 11 teams. 2) The top group is the 1st division and is followed by the 2nd division and so forth. The lowest division may be subdivided into two regional -or subdivisions. 3) The league structure for the following season is decided by the league management by April the 20th. B. Preseason of the 1st league season 4) To determine which teams play in which division in the first league season a preseason tournament is played from February to ultimo April. 5) The tournament is a three round swiss tournament with the same playing rules as the regular league season. 6) A team win in the tournament is awarded 2 points, a tie 1 point and a loss 0 points. 7) Tie breakers will be first the number of individual board wins, then number of wins on first board, then number of wins on second board ect. 8) In case of still a tie that would decided in which division the teams will play, a playoff match is played between the teams. 9) Teams may enter the tournament under the same conditions as the regular league season. 10) 1st teams start with 2 points more than 2nd teams, which again have two points more than 3rd teams ect. 11) If any club’s 1st team is placed in a division lower than it’s 2nd team the teams’ positions are switched. 12) The deadline for registration to the preseason tournament is January the 20th. 13) The schedule for the preseason tournament will be published shortly after the registration ends. §3. League management 1) The league management consists of one member assigned by each Nordic go organisation participating in the Nordic go club league. 2) The league management constitutes itself and assigns a preferable impartial manager to each division. 3) The division manager is responsible for the playing schedule, result recording and the supervision of the division. §4. League season 1) The league season runs from May the 1st to January the 31st. 2) During the season each team meets the other teams in the division once. 3) The division manager makes a playing schedule at the beginning of the season. Herein the first mentioned team is “home team” and has black on the uneven board numbers and white on the even board numbers. It is the division manager’s responsibility to make the schedule in best accordance to the holidays, tournaments and club nights of the involved teams. 4) Any relegation matches is played in February. 5) The official winner and eventual prizes are announced at the Nordic Championship during Easter. §5. Playing dates 1) Both team captains must at least 10 days before the scheduled date send a player list for the match to the opposing team and the division manager. 2) If one of the team captains wants to play on the internet then the game must be played online. 3) One or more games may be rescheduled within a week before the scheduled date but it is preferred the match is played on the same date and the games simultaneously. 4) If a new playing date cannot be agreed then the original scheduled date stands. 5) If the one or more teams can agree to meet over the boards in real life then games should just be played before the scheduled date. This is of course the preferred method as it makes more friends but often not practical possible. §6. Matches 1) A match consists of 4 games and all games should be started at the scheduled time. If a match cannot be started after 30 minutes from the scheduled start the game is lost for the player not present, unless the team captains have agreed to reschedule the game to another time within the allowed timeframe (§5.3,5) 2) All games are played using the Japanese rules as used in Europe or online on KSG. 3) Black gives a komi of 6.5 to white in all games. 4) The playing time for each player is 30 minutes plus a byo-yomi of 20 stones in 5 minutes. 5) Each won game is worth 2 points for the team, jigo 1 point and a loss 0 points. 6) The team with most points after the 4 games are played wins the match and earns 2 match points. A tie is worth 1 match point and a loss 0 match points. 7) The team captain reports the result to the division manager within 24 hours. 8) When playing online it is the black player who (guided by the team captain) sets up the game. It is though up to both players to check that the correct settings is used. §7. Standing 1) The division manager updates the standing after each played match. 2) The standing is ordered after: 1. Match points 2. Game points 3. Game points on board one 4. Game points on board two 5. Game points on board three 6. Game points on board four §8. Teams 1) Each team must represent a Nordic Go club. 2) A team consists of 5 to 10 players. 3) The players are on registration ordered in descending priority for filling the 4 boards. The first four players are the regular players and the rest replacements. The players must fill the boards in this order during the matches (e.g. player 5 cannot replace player 3 on board 3 if player 4 is playing board 4. Then player 4 must play board 3 and player 5 board 4). 4) Any club may register more than one team but not more than one is allowed to play in each (sub)division. 5) A player is allowed to play on two different teams for a club but only once as regular player and then not as replacement in a lower division than the team as regular player. Likewise if playing as replacement for two teams then they must be in different divisions and the player cannot play two teams less than 14 days apart. §9. Team captain 1) Each team must assign a team captain who does not have to play on the team, though. 2) The team captain is the official contact of the team and responsible for setting up, playing and reporting the result of the team’s matches. Therefore the team captain also needs to give a regular checked (i.e. at least on workdays) e-mail address for official communication. 3) It is the team captain’s responsibility to find a temporary replacement, and inform the division manager, if he is unavailable for a longer period of time. 4) A team captain can at any time, in agreement with the division manager, be replaced by a vote of majority on the team. §10. Team registration 1) Each team must (re)register for the season before April the 10th by giving details of the team name, club, team captain and a team player list to the team management. 2) The team list should state the rank of the players. This should roughly be in accordance with the prioritization. If the division manager finds the team list too odd it may ask the team captain for an explanation and a reordering before May 1st. 3) In all divisions but the 1st division can the team captain add players to the team and rearrange the team list (within §8) up till September the 1st. 4) The new team list can in accordance with 2) be questioned by the division manager until October the 1st. §11. Division winners and Nordic go club team champion 1) At the end of the season the winner of a division is the first placed in the division. In the 1st division the winner is the Nordic go club team champion. 2) If more than one team is tied for first then the teams play a knock-out match until the winner is found. The match is played under normal tournament rules (§6) and the winner decided after the order given in §7.2 §12. Relegation 1) If the division has only one division under it then - the last team is relegated to the lower division and - the winner of the lower division is promoted up. - the second to last team and the second team of the lower division play a relegation match according to the rules of §11.2. The looser is relegated to the lower division. 2) If the division has two divisions under is then - the two last teams are relegated to one lower division each - the two winners of the lower divisions are promoted up 3) In case of tied teams in §12.1-2) a knock-out match are played as in §11.2 §13. Entering and leaving the league 1) Any team entering the league, not having played the season before, enters at the lowest division level. 2) If a division exceeds the allowed team number it is subdivided in two. 3) If the lowest divisions are filled then the league management may rearrange the league structure. 4) If any team leaves the league from a division with a lower division then it is replaced at the next season with the highest placed team from the division below. §14. Complaints
rbl Member	# Posted: 7 Nov 2007 22:13 Det sidste mangler lige så det kommer her: §14. Complaints and penalties 1) Any disputes should be brought to the attention of the division manager and the league management. Who will act as judges to the best of their knowledge and the better of the league. 2) Any player that does not show for a game forfeits that game. 3) Any team that does not manage to hand in a team list for a match forfeits the match. 4) Any team that forfeits more than two matches looses all it matches in that season and is therefore relegated to a lower division or removed from the league if there is no lower division. 5) Any team that does not apply the a correct order of players to a match (§8.3) looses the games of the misplaced players
Jannik Member	# Posted: 8 Nov 2007 03:22 Det er sgu godt arbejde Rasmus! Et par bemærkninger. Jeg tror du har for få runder i din opstartsturnering. Mit bud er at det er nødvendigt med 2 runder pr liganiveau for at få en nogenlunde retfærdig fordeling. Ellers kunne man afgøre det vha. ratingsnittet på de 5 første spillere. Kunne man overveje kun at have 8 hold i hver række? Tyskerne er 3 gange så mange gospillere som vi er i Norden det må betyde noget for jævnbyrdigheden? Jeg mener ikke vi skal lægge os fast på ligastrukturen før det er klart hvor mange hold der deltager. Hvis der er mange kyuhold der vil spille med kunne man sprede fra niveau 3. Altså 1124. Kunne man ikke skrive KGS ind i 5.2 og så oprette et rum til formålet? Til 10.3 kunne man måske tilføje en regel om at hold på det laveste niveau må bytte om på rækkefølgen hele året så længe ændringerne følger den aktuelle egf ratingliste. Jeg er ikke helt sikker på jeg fotstår de finere deltaljer i 8.5 i forbindelse med forskellen mellem regular og replacement.
rbl Member	# Posted: 11 Nov 2007 14:58 Hej Jannik Angående antallet af runder i den indledende turnering, så var jeg usikker på hvad der skulle til for at så fordelt holdende. Det kan sagtens være at men skal op på 4 eller mere. Jeg kan ikke lige matematikken i det. Resten af dine foreslag synes jeg er fine og har tilføjet. 8 hold pr. division vil også løse rundelægningsproblemer omkring sommerferie og den europæiske go kongres. Rasmus
rbl Member	# Posted: 16 Nov 2007 09:53 Hej igen Jeg har tænkt lidt mere over presæsonen. Efter at have kigget lidt mere på schweizer (McMahon) turneringsystemet er jeg kommet frem til, at det nok ikke er det bedste. Det er lavet til at finde en vinder (og taber) i en turnering og er ikke godt til at fordele placeringer i midten af tabellen. Derfor hælder jeg nu mest til at fordele holdene efter ratinggennemsnit som Jannik også foreslog. Man kan enten bare fordele holdene i de forskellige divisioner efter dette, eller man kan kombinere det med en elimineringsturnering hvor igennem holdene fordeles. Det sidste synes jeg er bedst og det kunne gøres som følger (indeling efter divisioner med 8 hold): Holdene rangeres efter ratingsnitgennemsnit (på de 4 eller 5 første) og derefter parrest best mod værst. Her arbejdes der så med op til 16 eller 32 hold. For 16 hold vil det se således ud: 1-16 2-15 3-14 4-13 5-12 6-11 7-10 8-9 Dermed går topholdene videre uden modstander hvis der ikke helt er 16 hold. Tilsvarende for 32 hold. Ved 16 hold skal man kun bruge en runde (evt. med omkamp ved uafgjort eller tiebreaker på først bræt). Vinderne går videre til 1. division og taberne til 2. division, Ved 32 hold skal der to runder til. Taberne i første runde går til 3. division (evt. endnu en runde forfordeling til 3. og 4. division). I runde to går vinderne til 1. division og taberne til 2. division. Nok om presæsonen. Det kunne være fint med lidt flere kommentarer inden jeg sender det videre til de andre nordiske forbund. Især hvilken spilledag (hvis fast) vi danskere foretrækker og navnet på ligaen. Skal den hedde det lidet mundrette Nordic Go Club League eller Nordic Go League eller noget helt andet. Hvis vi har et fint navn vil jeg nemlig oprette et rum på KGS for diskussion mv. når jeg sender det videre. Mvh Rasmus
rbl Member	# Posted: 20 Nov 2007 15:01 Hej Det ser ud til at det er presæsonen der volder mest besvær. Vi diskuterede det seneste foreslag på KGK igår (mest Jannik og jeg) og kom frem til, at det nok var bedst at inddele holdene efter prioritering i divisioner og så kun lade de 4 lavest i den øvre og de 4 øverste i den nedre spille om hvem der rykker op. Det kunne så også gøre tilmeldingen lidt længere. Samtidig blev vi enig om at ligaen nok bare skulle hedde Nordic Go League. Alle kommentarer er velkomne, jo flere jo bedre. Jeg regner med at sende foreslaget videre til vores nordiske naboer 1. december. Så kan vi nok åbne tilmeldingen efter nytår. Her nedenfor har jeg listet ændringer i første foreslag (stavefejlsændringer og ligne er ikke medtaget): §2.1) The league is divided into groups of optimally 10 teams. The lowest groups may vary from 6 to 11 teams. ændret til: §2.1) The league is divided into groups of optimally 8 teams. The lowest groups may vary from 6 to 11 teams. §2.B. Preseason of the 1st league season ændret til: §2.B. Preseason of the 1st league season 4) To determine which teams play in which division in the first league season a preseason is played from February to ultimo April. 5) The teams are ordered descending after the average of the first 5 players on the prioritised team list. Thereafter they are organized in divisions according to §2.1-3 but two teams from the same club may not play in the same division unless there are no lower divisions. 6) The 4 lowest teams in each division play the 4 top teams of the division below. The teams play each other in opposite order (e.g. 8-1, 7-2, 6-3, 5-4) 7) The teams play one match following the outlines of §11.2. The looser is relegated to the lower division. 8) In case of still a tie that would decided in which division the teams will play, a playoff match is played between the teams. 9) Teams may enter the preseason under the same conditions as the regular league season. 10) If any club’s 1st team is placed in a division lower than it’s 2nd team the teams’ positions are switched. 11) The deadline for registration to the preseason is February the 1st. 12) The schedule for the preseason tournament will be published shortly after the registration ends. §5.2) If one of the team captains wants to play on the internet then the game must be played online. ændret til: §5.2) If one of the team captains wants to play on the internet then the game must be played online on KGS in the room Nordic Go League. Tilføjet er: §10.5) In the lowest division the team list order can be changed during the whole season if a player’s rank change significantly. This has to have the approval of the division manager. Mvh Rasmus
rbl Member	# Posted: 28 Nov 2007 13:06 Jeg har nu send det videre til de andre nordiske goforbund samt lagt det i det svenske forum: http://forum.goforbundet.se/viewtopic.php?p=6204#6204 Ligeledes er der oprettet et rum på KGS: Nordic Go League
Soeren Member	# Posted: 22 Aug 2008 12:35 Hej med jer. Bare saadan et lille spörgsmaal. Hvordan ser det ud for personer fra de nordiske lande som bor i udlandet? (Som for eksempel mig^_^) Siden jeg ikke virkelig er i nogen nordisk klub kan maa jeg ikke deltage? :( Hilsner, Søren.
Soeren Member	# Posted: 22 Aug 2008 13:32 Btw. I det tyske go-forbunds forum diskuterer de for tiden om de burde vaere muligt for hold fra udlandet at deltage. Hvordan taenker i om en aabning? Jeg har laest reglementet; jeg er bare interesseret hvordan i taenker om NGL. :-)
Inmare Member	# Posted: 25 Aug 2008 23:19 Hej, this is not only a theoretical question: The Flensborg Go Club is interested to join the NGL in the next playing season. We even have a danish member playing every week with us... (And I promise to learn a little more danish till then :) - but please answer in danish, I can read it well enough).
Jannik Member	# Posted: 30 Aug 2008 18:42 Det er Rasmus der er bossen, men jeg kan da prøve at give mine bud. @Soeren Jeg vil mene du kunne stille op hvis der blev lavet et Horsens hold, mens det vil være mod reglerne hvis du stillede op for København. @Inmare Det kunne være hyggeligt med Kjeld og resten af Flensborg i NGL, men hvis Flensborg får lov til at deltage hvor går grænse så for hvem der kan deltage. Jeg er ikke sikker på de andre Nordiske lande vil gå med til at Flensborg skal have særstatus.
Uffe Member	# Posted: 16 Sep 2008 09:55 @Soeren jeg vil mene at du for at deltage som dansk spiller i nordisk go liga skal være medlem i en dansk klub/dgf medlem med tilhørsforhold til en klub. Det kunne så som Jannik nævner være "Horsens" Men du skal være medlem af DGF for at kunne stille op! Ovenstående er vel så også løsningen på Flensborgs problem - en klub i eks. Sønderborg med "danske" medlemmer.
Inmare Member	# Posted: 25 Sep 2008 20:06 Hej, well, that would be a solution. Maybe we will do it that way.